*I intended to save my apologies till the end but as it is a long appeal i think it is best to do them before hand. So I apologise for the long post and for taking up more of your time and inconveniencing you yet again because of this misunderstanding that occured and i hope after reading my post you will understand my side of the story i'm trying to explain and see that i'm not trying to pull any of that plausible doubt BS but just to shed some light on the situation. I hope that in the very least we may discuss it further in a discord call to save us all some time and effort as we try to figure out how best to move forward with this incident that occurred rather deeply into the grey zone. Sincerely Brune.
Guess who's back, back again. Honestly surprised I'm actually having to do this again. I will try not to be a twat this time but given my precious ban an apology is not going to cut it this time and some things are going to need explaining with reference to the rules. Now I do not intend to nit pick the rules but rather point out that what i read after being told to read them last time leads me to believe the events that played out didn't justify a ban especially one done so hastily without any higher up discussion on this grey area and then a ban from the discord for trying to put forward my side of the story but rather just some admin overview to make sure it was settled peacefully.
What happened? (summarized for convenience)
- After considering it for the day i decided to set up a small alchemy lab on the outskirts (NW edge) of the town north of the SZ.
- Being a solo player and an easy target for robbery, I set up sentries to protect me while i got the building setup just enough to be secure after having heard numerous shot in the town.
- Now had these been setup for some time and no progress made i would understand the outrage received but these had been up for no longer than 3-5 mins and before i could even get a sign down to give warning i was rushed by two assailants on a quad bike.
- They approached from the North-West. There were 4 turrets all 90 degrees apart 1 of which was a friendly turret which happened to be on the side they approached from. They being Jono and one of his friends who are notorious for robbing anyone that they can out-number. So, it is fairly safe to assume their reason for approaching so rapidly was to rob me and why one already had a weapon out which triggered the friendly sentry.
- The sentries were hidden in a tree, i understand this is a bit of a dirty move but it is not unreasonable to expect a person to hide their sentries to allow for the best possible protection when considering they have only 200 HP and can be shot out from far away, and as preciously mentioned i intended to put a sign up for this reason warning not to approach.
- Okay so, Jono gets within 10m of the tree before the turrets even begin firing and had ample amount of time to run back out of range ad they had only just entered it but instead took several seconds to open fire on and kill me instead which is understandable if they thought i was shooting despite the fact i was moving most of the time and it can be seen in the video i never fired a single bullet.
- So in that situation it could be said that i was the one kosed but i think it's better to call it a misunderstanding but if they were honest about intentions of robbery then the turrets were merely retaliating in defence of me.
- Jono and company took this as KOS despite the fact that i was given no time to turn the sentries off and actually ad no means by which to get back to the power source quickly enough. That aside i think it is unfair to describe a sentry doing what it is programmed to do in the game as KOS as i had no control over it, did not bait them into it or activate it when they got close but rather they intruded into its set perimeter of defence which they could just as easily have exited.
- We all died but were all shortly back there. We have both notified ThreeEyedFish in chat and he would probably have been there shortly so i went over to my loot a good distance away from theirs and began to pick it up. Now instead of calmly asking me what was going on or to turn the turrets off or waiting for the admin they began to try and destroy them. Now them attempting to destroy my buildables could have probably qualified for me to shoot them but instead i went over to their loot to suggest that if they kept trying to break stuff i would pick it up. Now despite having not stopped moving by their loot or even touched it Jono shot and killed me which is most certainly KOS instead of waiting for the admin to arrive.
- Fish banned me shortly afterwards without discussing this grey area situation with any other admins and when i tried to speak out on the discord group banned me off of there as well. I see where he was coming from, maybe it was late and he didn't want to have a whole long discussion but i do feel the matter got handled a little too fast.
Why?
A few reasons why I feel I should be unbanned or at least have this matter discussed a little more in a voice chat where it can be discussed one person to another in an easier manner so as to better understand where each side is coming from.
1. I read the rules earlier that day and there was no mention of not being allowed to use turrets not only to defend ones self but for any other reason other than perhaps the common sense ones of sz camping or spawn camping.
2. It says in the rules that KOS is allowed at ,"Any active base/base raid" so considering i had foundation on me ready to place although perhaps that would not be consider an active base but rather a base in active development, if turrets doing what they are meant to do is considered kos then would that not have been an appropriate place for it. (please clarify whether the first "active base" stated before base raid refers to a base currently occupied by people)
3. This one i find the most compelling is that just earlier in the day i watch Crazybob ban another player for killing someone who was still in the process of building their base when the killer claimed no it was a raid. So given the fact there was no RP scenario going on and no important apparent reason for them to kill me did they not then commit kos.
4. With them for sure in the wrong and me possibly in the wrong depending on the decision on the use of turrets to defend while building in a position that would not allow the turrets to harm anyone trying to explore the city or travel unless they actively approached me, does it not make more sense for the matter to have been resolved peacefully under the watchful eye of an admin as we both picked up our loot or to the ban all those who were in the wrong so as to allow for no disputes. (this did not happen as jono gloated afterwards that he got all his loot back and when i called him out for playing the victim card despite him being in the wrong to he admitted to it.)
- Chernarus Roleplay server.
**I hope we can com to a better understanding as i honestly never intended for anything to go down this way and was just trying to do my best to RP in accordance with the rules i read and that i may get the opportunity to speak with one of you so that you can hear the sincerity in voice and hopefully understand then that i was not trying to be at all harmful to other players.
Counter arguments to your BS reasons, in no particular order.
1.) Me, and Nutman approached you as there were reports of KOS in Berenzino from another player completely unrelated to our team. Not to rob.
2.) I did not have any time to back away from the turrets for FPS reasons. It's hard to react when you're getting 20 FPS on the server. Even with that, how do you expect to outrun 4 turrets all carrying SMG's?
3.) No, the turrets you placed kosed me. So I guess it's ok for me to place turrets everywhere around SZ? Technically I'm not KOSING, it's the turrets I placed that are :Smart:
4.) We were NOT trying to rob, we came to investigate the reports of KOS in Berenzino.
5.) You shouldn't have hostile turrets out in the open of a town near SZ, they should be on, INSIDE of an actual base.
6.) You can't expect me to shoot you while you're grabbing me and my friends loot, that is completely illogical, and out of line.
1. You may have come because of talk of kos but that does not say what your intentions were when yo got there. What exactly would you have done about it? you couldn't ban the koser so all you could do was rob or detain them.
2. Fps is no excuse as i play at 5 fps four times lower than yours and even i could move around just fine when they started firing.
3. I stated serveral times that the placing of the turrets should be fine so long as they are not placed directly in a town or around sz as then their purpose would be sz camping not defending an isolated area, so your example is illogical.
4. Again what did you plan to do after 'investigating".
5. Again they were not "out in the open of a town" but in the wooded area next to it.
6. Yes i can expect you not to shoot as, 1 I never grabbed the loot and 2 that would then be revenge kos.
7. You died by your own hand i had no active role or intent in your death, my turrets may have brought it about but that was not their sole purpose so i'm fairly certain that loot would be fair game for anyone although i would have been happy to let you come collect it if you hadn't been so rash and used your words instead of being salty that your numbers didn't protect you and you died for once.
5 fps my ass 🤣 i used to run a GT 560 on the server and still got 20 fps... no way you're getting 5 fps
I play on a laptop, so yes i get between 5-8 fps.
It's hardly the same shit bob, the first time i was building near the sz which was causing lag so i got banned.
This time i was just minding my own business about to start building a 2x2x2 nothing that would be overkill and away from the safezone and these dudes just ride into my turrets as I'm about to start building. I wasn't even aware they were coming till they were almost right behind me and if i had had more warning i would have told them not to approach because there were turrets. I don't understand why everyone is so heated about this i literally just got caught on the short end of the stick because i had no time to react to anything before it was already over. Not to mention if i got banned for kos when i didn't even shoot or have time to stop the turrets which i couldnt even cause the generator was up in the tree why did Jono not get banned for revenge kos? It seems a bit unfair to ban one person for kos and completely ignore the others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W24NLlI7-U
Go look in the top left and then try tell me i'm not getting between 5-8 fps... cake.
Thanks for making this appeal, I told myself if you got banned again, I would have no interest in resolving the situation. But I really appreciate the sincerity of the appeal.
I think the main issue is that there were no warning signs of the sentries. Besides, it's common knowledge that a sentry will shoot at people, as you said, that's what it's programmed to do. So you'd have thought you would put them somewhere where in the event of them shooting someone, it would not be considered KOS. A good way to think of it would be the idea that sentries act on your behalf, and are your responsibility.
Though, saying "it's unfair to describe a sentry doing as its programmed to do as kos" doesn't seem very valid. It's like saying "It's unfair to describe a gun killing someone as its programmed to do as KOS". Ultimately it's up to the player to KOS or not, not the game.
Now, there's no way to tell the intentions of the KOS victims just by them walking around with their weapons out, I know many players myself included roam around with weapons equipped. But if the sentries are at a base facing outward, I'd recommend them not being hostile ones, and having clear warning signs regarding them.
However, I do agree that the rules should at least be updated to include player responsibility for sentries, and that this most likely is a mishap. Personally I don't mind you being unbanned, but keep in mind that sentries and such are your responsibility, so if they're placed in the middle of a field and shoot someone, the KOS would be on your behalf.
Okay I will keep that in mind thank you very much. Would the possibility of friendly sentries be allowed on builds in progress to stop robberies just so that people can't threaten you with weapons and steal your farm? I actually intended to have friendly ones and made 1 but then hastily made the others only to realise they were hostile so i will be more careful next time.
I see what you mean with the sentries being kos and I'm glad to have it clarified, in the mean time i thought of some suggestions for like building rules that might help. (will make it into a table later with ticks and crosses to make it easier to see the difference for the sentries)
Hostile Sentries:
- Can be placed inside finished buildings, and only on the outside of complete bases so long as the base is in an isolated area.
- Sentries placed on the outside of incomplete builds or builds near frequently visited areas can be regarded as a tool of kos as the owner knew that by placing them in the open they would kos players almost as an extension of themselves (on their behalf as you said).
Neutral Sentries:
- May be placed inside builds and outside complete builds so long as the build does not intrude on map landmarks such as cities. The builds may be close to cities but outside of the zombies follow range to allow players to defend themselves against zombies.
- Unless placed in plain view and even then so it is advised to provide warning signs to passing players and to let them know they are safe to pass so long as their hands remain up. Or to mark the boundaries of the sentries range with some kind of visible marker.
- Not regarded as a tool of kos unless used with obvious intent to do so such as baiting people with pvp into them during a fight.
Friendly Sentries:
- Free to use during the process of building to defend from robberies, warning signs are advised but not necessary if the sentries are visible. Can be used in completed builds but the other turrets are advised.
- May be used on the outside of completed builds near landmarks so long as they are outside of zombies follow range but unable to shoot those still within the range. As long as they are not hidden from plain sight unless they cannot harm anyone outside of the build then they may be hidden.
- Advised these are used for RP builds rather than defence unless situated in a popular area.
Others;
- Sentries may not be placed within map landmarks where they restrict players access to lot within those landmarks or pose a threat to any just passing through.
- They may be place INSIDE of base builds within landmarks so long as they pose no threat to anyone that is outside of the build and only those trespassing on the build (raiding) and given that they do not block off access to important areas or loot. Some examples of these places would be inside the upper floors of the tall apartment buildings that spawn little to no loot and do not pose a direct threat to passersby when windowed or walled off. *Note that this is a risky thing to attempt without clearing the sight of the build with an admin first.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198134425604/
SORRY, I forgot to add my steam ID. Noob mistake 😆
your suggestions seem overly complicated which leaves room for error.
Some players have trouble following the little rules we have already, they also go against our "simple rules" layout. So it's best to keep it simple.
Very against limiting players' freedom with a long rules list where they have to read specific ins and outs for every situation, making them feel like they're walking on eggshells because they might forget a specific rule.
Imo, it's pretty simple. Sentries are used to kill people on sight, and the player who placed the sentry is responsible for that. So place sentries where they won't illegally KOS someone.
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